“Big money isn’t required. R&D and a highly educated, inventive population are required. ”

So long as people overseas with big money don’t hire the best of the inventive and educated people, or buy their patents or companies. Are you advocating emigration restrictions and restrictions on trade in intellectual property?

I think that your huts and potatoes example takes things to an extreme that others in the discussion would not imply. Personally, I think that international trade can be a good thing, but let’s not get carried away by an extreme view there either by ignoring environmental or social/moral issues.

Your company A/B question appears to confuse the issue by bringing in other factors. These could have their own solutions via independent mechanisms. As it was initially stated, I do not think it was clear that the question even related to the trade issue at all. However, if it does, perhaps we can agree that it is generally difficult to set up programmes that ensure perfect outcomes!

What do you think of the “Fair Trade” concept?

And what do people think about the points that Tinker has raised above? I think that the environmental point is particularly interesting. I don’t have any answers but would be keen to be informed!

You’d be talking about wood, cheese and meat, then.

Certainly. I did. It’s a dig (ha!) Perhaps this is the wrong site for humour, given that the sky is always falling, and we’re about to be warmed to death. I live in Wellington, so quite frankly, global warming can’t come soon enough, as it gets rather cold here in winter.

I digress.

Can someone answer my questions? How are you going to get hold of expensive medicines and health treatment, and which company do you support, A or B?

Both are real NZ companies, btw, but I’m guessing you clever people are one step ahead of me. Company A is delighted about their marketing subsidy, company B is less impressed.

Can you show me where anyone here mentioned potatoes and huts?
Thanks in advance!

Oh, I see.
So pretending our economy is not almost entirely based on primary production is called “strategy”.
I’m glad you’ve cleared that up.

Question: There are two products. One is made by company A, who pump effluent into a nearby stream on the quiet, the boss is a bit of a tyrant, and his prices are uncompetitive. Company B are model citizens, and their prices are competitive.

Which do you support?

Big money isn’t required. R&D and a highly educated, inventive population are required.

>>create a pleasant living environment..commodity fetishism

If some people want to live in huts and grow potatoes, they are free to do so now. Each to their own. Wonder what they do for expensive, imported medicine?

I prefer a somewhat higher standard of living. Thanks to sound free-market, centre-right policy, NZers enjoy the benefits of both worlds.

Well said!

Actually we have several long term advantages. Copious amounts of fresh water (it falls on us purty regler here in Welly), a vast renewable resource in terms of wind generation of electricity, and possibly a tidal generator in the strait, not TOO many people for our agriculture to support…. I could go on a little. None of these translate well into an advantage in commerce in a world that doesn’t count the indirect costs (external costs) of trade and transport. They have nothing to do with IP or IT or high-end manufacturing … well almost. The electrical surplus is darned useful form making aluminium.

The fact that we are by ourselves, a small and isolated market, gives us some advantages in a world that is on the verge of being short of just about every single thing that is necessary to its survival. Fresh water is a much bigger nascent problem than peak oil… but when it hits the breadbasket of the USA and the farmers in India and China it will make a far larger dent in the confidence of the growth-is-good crowd than running out of oil is going to do. You can, to some extent, use energy to correct almost any material shortage/problem, If you are also short of energy the population reductions begin… one way or another.

As for you, mr exitsleft, the consumer who wishes to make a choice based on something OTHER than simple money concerns is currently without a tool to do so. It is almost impossible to work out what is kiwi made and what is not, and that lack of choice is the worst of the problem. I don’t give a rats rear about the advertising, but the information is essential to those of us who, since the external environmental concerns are not currently priced into the market, wish to preserve the environment by buying local products when such will serve… even at a slight disadvantage of actual price. This is what you get when you stop the price mechanism from actually including the price of destroying the commons. You get the folks with the concern doing whatever ELSE they can to get the environmental information into the market, if only as a symbol on the wrapper.

It might actually be more effective without any advertising. A whisper campaign in a nation obsessively concerned with rumours? Oh yeah….

respectfully
BJ

(1) environmental externalities (such as greenhouse gas emissions) involved in trade, not incorporated into the pinciple at its basic level.

(2) morality of some efficiencies, e.g. relatively poor pay and conditions for workers in cheap-labour countries.

.. and possibly other issues, like how the world could be planning ahead for peak oil. In my view, the issues are not negligible. It seems to me that the Greens care about (1) and (2).

I think that a very prominent economist, who was until recently very pro-free-trade, may have recently said publicly that he has changed his mind in some significant way about the benefits of free trade. Anyone?

It would be interesting to see relevant Cabinet paper(s) for the Buy Kiwi Made programme, if available online. It might help clarify what is happening, and expectations around benefits of the programme.

I like the thought of people generally relaxing somewhat from the rat race. The book “Affluenza” goes into some ideas around that. Also
http://www.wellbeingmanifesto.net/ .