Comments on: NZ Last http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/ hopping along the corridors of power Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:16:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: maurice24 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-21142 maurice24 Thu, 28 Dec 2006 06:23:31 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-21142 In the above posts there is little mention of MONEY. This is what it is all about. Basic food supplements (vitamins and minerals) are dramatically more expensive here and in Australia than in Canada or the US. Other items are controlled by being on prescription i.e. too dangerous for people to take unsupervised. A good example is melatonin - a possible anti-cancer agent available OTC in many countries. A friend was prescribed it by her doctor here in Auckland. She complained to me it cost almost a dollar a tablet (excluding doctor's fee and prescription charges) I got her some on the internet from the US for about 5c a tablet. I suffer from jet lag. It works miracles for me. I bought a 500 tablet bottle in Amsterdam airport recently for around $25. Melatoinin is not a product being produced by small local suppliers. The impending Australian rules and our prescription regulations will guarantee that all those concerned will continue to profit handsomely except ordinary Kiwis of course!! In the above posts there is little mention of MONEY. This is what it is all about. Basic food supplements (vitamins and minerals) are dramatically more expensive here and in Australia than in Canada or the US.
Other items are controlled by being on prescription i.e. too dangerous for people to take unsupervised.
A good example is melatonin - a possible anti-cancer agent available OTC in many countries. A friend was prescribed it by her doctor here in Auckland. She complained to me it cost almost a dollar a tablet (excluding doctor’s fee and prescription charges)
I got her some on the internet from the US for about 5c a tablet. I suffer from jet lag. It works miracles for me. I bought a 500 tablet bottle in Amsterdam airport recently for around $25.
Melatoinin is not a product being produced by small local suppliers. The impending Australian rules and our prescription regulations will guarantee that all those concerned will continue to profit handsomely except ordinary Kiwis of course!!

]]> By: phil u http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20788 phil u Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:48:55 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20788 ok..stuey.. you....like that ex..can have the last word..eh..? carry on.. phil(whoar.co.nz) ok..stuey..

you….like that ex..can have the last word..eh..?

carry on..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

]]> By: stuey http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20787 stuey Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:40:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20787 I agree that using words and the power of argument can change opinions, but it also needs good presentation or those arguments will be ignored, not to mention being polite and seeing someone else's side and attempting to engage with them rather than rail at them. I agree that using words and the power of argument can change opinions, but it also needs good presentation or those arguments will be ignored, not to mention being polite and seeing someone else’s side and attempting to engage with them rather than rail at them.

]]> By: phil u http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20785 phil u Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:32:56 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20785 i just 'don't listen'..eh..? and eredwen.... you say i'm doing myself no favours by urging from the sideline.. but that dosen't matter eredwen... nothing i did in the greens was to win a popularity contest.. and unlike most of the others ..i had no personal ambitions to fosture/work for... freedom from those imperatives gives one a certain freedom.. but i must admit...you are right about one thing.. i don't seem to have/be having any effect.... there is an institutional truculence/memory/inertia i can't get past.. and i think i am close to not bothering anymore..for those reasons... i think i'm still feckin' naieve enough to think scales will fall from peoples eyes..from using the power of argument/the word.. despite that not happening time and time again.. i think you..the greens..have set your own course..with your choice of leadership...and continued close' relationship with labour.. i hope for your sakes your welding yourselves to that course of action will have a 'result' for you.... however you will value/grade that.. so..i think i've pretty much said my piece.. anything more would be repetition... eh..? phil(whoar.co.nz) i just ‘don’t listen’..eh..?

and eredwen….

you say i’m doing myself no favours by urging from the sideline..

but that dosen’t matter eredwen…

nothing i did in the greens was to win a popularity contest..

and unlike most of the others ..i had no personal ambitions to fosture/work for…

freedom from those imperatives gives one a certain freedom..

but i must admit…you are right about one thing..

i don’t seem to have/be having any effect….

there is an institutional truculence/memory/inertia i can’t get past..

and i think i am close to not bothering anymore..for those reasons…

i think i’m still feckin’ naieve enough to think scales will fall from peoples eyes..from using the power of argument/the word..

despite that not happening time and time again..

i think you..the greens..have set your own course..with your choice of leadership…and continued close’ relationship with labour..

i hope for your sakes your welding yourselves to that course of action will have a ‘result’ for you….

however you will value/grade that..

so..i think i’ve pretty much said my piece..

anything more would be repetition…

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

]]> By: stuey http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20780 stuey Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:11:24 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20780 omg, you're right I do sound like someone's ex. How embarrassing. :oops: omg, you’re right I do sound like someone’s ex. How embarrassing. :oops:

]]> By: phil u http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20775 phil u Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:57:22 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20775 that's ok stuey.. jeez..yr starting to sound like one of my ex's... enough already...! phil(whoar.co.nz) that’s ok stuey..

jeez..yr starting to sound like one of my ex’s…

enough already…!

phil(whoar.co.nz)

]]> By: kiwinuke http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20755 kiwinuke Tue, 19 Dec 2006 05:05:32 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20755 Hi Phil It's only a press release - but at least it's not just on scoop The link I mentioned earlier on Jeanette's criticism of the Govt Energy Strategy. Silent eh? http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3896467a10,00.html Hi Phil

It’s only a press release - but at least it’s not just on scoop

The link I mentioned earlier on Jeanette’s criticism of the Govt Energy Strategy.

Silent eh?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3896467a10,00.html

]]> By: stuey http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20737 stuey Tue, 19 Dec 2006 01:37:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20737 phil: "show me what is untrue in what i say". me: what's the point? you won't listen, and you'll just go off on another rant where you insult me. I've got better things to do with my life. phil: “show me what is untrue in what i say”.

me: what’s the point? you won’t listen, and you’ll just go off on another rant where you insult me. I’ve got better things to do with my life.

]]> By: kiwinuke http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20730 kiwinuke Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:29:30 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20730 Hi Phil, "and of course..being in that government role..there’d be no ‘unspoken’ pressures not to criticise the governments actions..or lack of actions.." I agree, there are bound to be both spoken and unspoken pressures from Labour - but that hasn't, to my knowledge, stopped any criticism of Government policy that the Greens are not partly responsible for. Jeanette has recently criticised the National Energy Strategy (see frog's latest post) and Russel has consistently criticised current govt efforts on CC in his trips around the regions. I agree that Jeanette probably has a lot less room for criticism on the Energy Efficiency Strategy as she is involved in developing and fronting that. But I still think that without her involvement the current draft startegy would be a lot weaker than it is. So the real question is - would the Green Party be more effective not being a part of that and having the freedom to criticise more? This government has shown itself to be pretty immune to criticism from the Greens to date - they only seem to react when the Nats do something to get the polls swinging their way. "so..i think you’ve answered my question stuey… and confirmed my suspicions that was why the greens have been so (otherwise) inexplicably silent…." Phil I don't agree that the Greens have been silent - I see them stating their case consistently in a number of fora, not just with press releases but with public actions (such as Nov 4) around the country, MPs public meetings around the country, climate change DVD showings in the regions and policy statements on the website. If your view of an ideal world is one where Green Party policy and criticism of the government's snail-dribbling progress on CC policy is given front page coverage I agree that would be helpful - but I think you underplay the difficulties in getting the message out. The Green Party doesn't seem to have Al Gore's movie budget. "and the reason you see the greens nowhere else is because for some reason the greens seem to think issuing press releases is ‘it’.." Phil I disagree again - but I am curious, other than the avenues persued above what methods do you think the Greens should be using to get their message across? As for jaundiced, I think you might find a surprising amount of disappointment and frustration amongst the Green MPs themselves at the foot-dragging approach Labour has been taking and at the difficulty of achieving any real change when you're effectively side-lined by a cosy power sharing arrangement between Labout and Winston and Peter. But if just moaning about that from the sidelines really had a dramatic and positive effect you would surely have single-handedly changed the course of NZ history by now Phil. Hi Phil,

“and of course..being in that government role..there’d be no ‘unspoken’ pressures not to criticise the governments actions..or lack of actions..”

I agree, there are bound to be both spoken and unspoken pressures from Labour - but that hasn’t, to my knowledge, stopped any criticism of Government policy that the Greens are not partly responsible for. Jeanette has recently criticised the National Energy Strategy (see frog’s latest post) and Russel has consistently criticised current govt efforts on CC in his trips around the regions.

I agree that Jeanette probably has a lot less room for criticism on the Energy Efficiency Strategy as she is involved in developing and fronting that. But I still think that without her involvement the current draft startegy would be a lot weaker than it is. So the real question is - would the Green Party be more effective not being a part of that and having the freedom to criticise more?

This government has shown itself to be pretty immune to criticism from the Greens to date - they only seem to react when the Nats do something to get the polls swinging their way.

“so..i think you’ve answered my question stuey…

and confirmed my suspicions that was why the greens have been so (otherwise) inexplicably silent….” Phil

I don’t agree that the Greens have been silent - I see them stating their case consistently in a number of fora, not just with press releases but with public actions (such as Nov 4) around the country, MPs public meetings around the country, climate change DVD showings in the regions and policy statements on the website.

If your view of an ideal world is one where Green Party policy and criticism of the government’s snail-dribbling progress on CC policy is given front page coverage I agree that would be helpful - but I think you underplay the difficulties in getting the message out. The Green Party doesn’t seem to have Al Gore’s movie budget.

“and the reason you see the greens nowhere else is because for some reason the greens seem to think issuing press releases is ‘it’..” Phil

I disagree again - but I am curious, other than the avenues persued above what methods do you think the Greens should be using to get their message across?

As for jaundiced, I think you might find a surprising amount of disappointment and frustration amongst the Green MPs themselves at the foot-dragging approach Labour has been taking and at the difficulty of achieving any real change when you’re effectively side-lined by a cosy power sharing arrangement between Labout and Winston and Peter.

But if just moaning about that from the sidelines really had a dramatic and positive effect you would surely have single-handedly changed the course of NZ history by now Phil.

]]> By: eredwen http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20728 eredwen Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:15:43 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/13/nz-firsts-deal/#comment-20728 phil: There is a difference betweeen what the media reports (or doesn't report) and what is actually said and done (as I am sure you well know!) 1. I find the Green Parliamentarians and their team imaginative in the way they get much of the publicity they do. (I choose to give credit where credit is due, and I very much doubt that you could do better!) 2. When Jeanette (and Rod) were deciding the pros and cons of any associations with Cabinet-type posts (in this case "spokesperson") I remember that there was a considerable amount of discussion about these pros and cons. One of the biggest "pros" is an image in people's minds that this person is speaking wisely in an official capacity. (That image remains ... often longer than the details of what the position was. Thus it is an incremental step in the right direction.) I think the Green MPs are often "punching well above their weight". phil, surely you realise that your "rants" (as others call them) are not doing anyone much good ... especially you! phil:

There is a difference betweeen what the media reports (or doesn’t report) and what is actually said and done (as I am sure you well know!)

1. I find the Green Parliamentarians and their team imaginative in the way they get much of the publicity they do. (I choose to give credit where credit is due, and I very much doubt that you could do better!)

2. When Jeanette (and Rod) were deciding the pros and cons of any associations with Cabinet-type posts (in this case “spokesperson”) I remember that there was a considerable amount of discussion about these pros and cons. One of the biggest “pros” is an image in people’s minds that this person is speaking wisely in an official capacity. (That image remains … often longer than the details of what the position was. Thus it is an incremental step in the right direction.)

I think the Green MPs are often “punching well above their weight”.

phil, surely you realise that your “rants” (as others call them) are not doing anyone much good … especially you!

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