Probably right. Above that, it becomes a niche product. The size of the niche depends on consumer consciousness. Redid the house about 10 years ago, with organic paint for the interior (German brand) : I remember it cost about 30% more than the chemical alternatives : we didn’t hesitate for a second. It’s actually a long term investment, it lasts longer than a TV, perhaps as long as a decent fridge. It’s just plain consumer ignorance if they choose purely on price, after all people are prepared to pay 30% more for a better TV.

Thanks for that, but with respect that is not the point I was trying to make.

While the govt does publish those figures it has little effect in the market place, there needs to be a change in the law that will allow the manufactures to state “this vehicle should return you X liters per 100K” without fear of being dragged through the courts by some smart arse lawyer whose client only managed X.5 litres per 100k.

I am not advocating a drop in consumer rights or protections just a change in the law that comes under the heading…common bloody sense

The government already publishes independently tested fuel efficiency information for new and near new vehicles (vehicles up to 7 years old currently, I think the limit is) on their Fuelsaver website:

http://www.fuelsaver.govt.nz/

This website was (I understand) established and is managed by EECA though there is talk that management will transfer next year to Dept of Land Transport and that the testing will be done in “closer to real world driving conditions”.

In addition, one of the proposals in the new National Energy Efficiency and Conservation Strategy is to require all new cars sold to be labelled with (independently tested) fuel efficiency information - much the same as a lot of whiteware is now labelled with an energy efficiency star rating.

This would be an excellent move, as it gives people the information that the market has been failing to give them, involves no coercion of consumers and allows people to make choices that can save them money by buying vehicles with lower fuel consumption.

The Green Party has been lobbying for this sort of change for years and it has been frustratingly slow in coming. It has been common for years in many European countries and is even common in many American states (notably California of course, go Arnie).

The only downside to this policy that I can see is that it doesn’t fit very neatly with Mouldwarp’s view of Green ambitions:

“The authoritarian Green party proposes to extend still further the state’s power to dictate to me how I should live�

And we still wait to see the justification for his rabidly extreme view.

I was in Tokyo recently, and the Japanese & American people I was with didn’t know much about New Zealand. They did know that it apparently has cheap golf courses. They wondered if we ate sushi…

There’s a whole world outside the activist sphere. Rather a large one…

Thanks for that and please accept my best wishes to you and your family for the festive season, the same goes for all here at frogblog.

While we are on about the automotive industry I would like the Green party to consider this over the break.

If we as a nation are serious about having people drive economical vehicles and vehicles with low emissions then there needs to be an immediate change in our consumer law.

At the moment the car companies (the smart ones anyway) will not publish fuel economy stats simply because they leave themselves wide open to claims of false advertising, any dealer who says “Mr & Mrs Jones, this vehicle will do 10L per 100km and it does not faces the very real chance that they will have to give the purchaser a full refund if the owner can prove it does not meet the claimed economy figure.

As we all know fuel economy figures vary widely, it depends on a lot of things and very few drivers will achieve the same economy figures even in the same vehicle.

The downside of this is that thousands of customers purchase new or near new vehicles with no idea what the real fuel economy figure should be or what the emission levels are for that vehicle.

A simple law change is all that is needed, the Car manufactures should be able to publish figures (fuel economy and emission levels) that are independently tested (indeed I would make it compulsory)

Then at least the purchasing public can make a conscience decision about what they want from their motor vehicle.

Thanks.

You, BJ, Van, BB and all the others have a nice Christmas and a happy holiday.

Long may we continue to discuss (and at times disagree vehemently).

As I have said before, dialog is better than guns.

Just to quickly go back to the automotive industry. Notice how the car companies in the US and Australia are seeking government protection because they havent followed the consumers (market) demand for cheaper to run cars like the Japanese ones. Personally run a 2.2 Toyota Camry which energy wise costs me $1 per 10k’s. Plus will run for 300,000 k (if you change cambelts and have a regular service). Much better than any yank or oz big six or eight and in the same comfort.

People do not look to us. They just don’t. I have travelled widely, over many years, and lived in the UK, and New Zealand barely registers, except as a holiday destination. Most people couldn’t point it out on a map, let alone know we’re “leading� a “movement�.

Actually in Japan, apart from All Blacks and sheep, New Zealand is known (and admired) for its anti-nuclear stance. So people in the rest of the world do know about us, and will take notice if we unilaterally take action on climate change.

The reality is that the average American or European knows about as much about New Zealand policy as the average New Zealander knows about Belarus. We’re not on the radar, nor should we be. We’re small.

If the Greens want to pretend to “lead” this thing, fine by me, so long as we don’t spend any more money on it than is absolutely necessary, and/or we don’t risk our economy unnecessarily.

The reality is that we’re responsible for insignificant emissions and don’t even feature in the Top 20.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/each-countrys-share-of-co 2-emissions.html

The idea that the world looks to us for leadership is complete fantasy.

I’m very impressed.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!

eredwen