Comments on: Greens polling 10% in NSW http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:53:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: kiwinuke http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25513 kiwinuke Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:58:31 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25513 Hi jh, Not sure that's such a great analogy - the smalle marties may be the "light weights" that allow a major party to ensure a majority vote in Parliament, but that doesn't mean they carry more than theiur own weight in policy determinations. If they did I would agree with BB's concerns, but experience suggests that they are still very much minor parties with only a minor influence on policy and budget spending initiatives - which is as it should be. One could argue (on the evidence) that in terms of budget dollars spent on Green initiatives over the past 9 years the Green Party has been punching well below it's "weight" in terms of proportion of votes. Some commentators just seems to be aggrieved that minorities have anyt voice at all. maybe they hark for the days of Muldoon when the National Party could run Government with no need for a coalition partner even (at times) with a percentage vote less than Labour's. These arguments have been well rehearsed and repeated on this site. Some people will never agree and will keep throwing in extreme comments and characterisations of MMP as anti-democratic. But in a democracy it behoves us all to be tolerant and respectful of such minority views. Hi jh,

Not sure that’s such a great analogy - the smalle marties may be the “light weights” that allow a major party to ensure a majority vote in Parliament, but that doesn’t mean they carry more than theiur own weight in policy determinations.

If they did I would agree with BB’s concerns, but experience suggests that they are still very much minor parties with only a minor influence on policy and budget spending initiatives - which is as it should be.

One could argue (on the evidence) that in terms of budget dollars spent on Green initiatives over the past 9 years the Green Party has been punching well below it’s “weight” in terms of proportion of votes.

Some commentators just seems to be aggrieved that minorities have anyt voice at all. maybe they hark for the days of Muldoon when the National Party could run Government with no need for a coalition partner even (at times) with a percentage vote less than Labour’s.

These arguments have been well rehearsed and repeated on this site. Some people will never agree and will keep throwing in extreme comments and characterisations of MMP as anti-democratic. But in a democracy it behoves us all to be tolerant and respectful of such minority views.

]]> By: jh http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25412 jh Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:27:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25412 I think BB has a point, the small parties can be the light wieghts that tip the scales. What is more we have list MP's who would in all probability be unelectable driving policy in the small parties (and having a great time while they are at it). jh I think BB has a point, the small parties can be the light wieghts that tip the scales. What is more we have list MP’s who would in all probability be unelectable driving policy in the small parties (and having a great time while they are at it).
jh

]]> By: shaky http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25396 shaky Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:43:55 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25396 BB Exaggerations aplenty. I don't think you will have much luck converting them. Barring minority parties, now that's corrupt (in a true sense of the word). Hello Zimbabwe. BB
Exaggerations aplenty.
I don’t think you will have much luck converting them.
Barring minority parties, now that’s corrupt (in a true sense of the word). Hello Zimbabwe.

]]> By: big bruv http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25392 big bruv Sun, 25 Mar 2007 06:31:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25392 Russel You know full well that MMP is about the least democratic system there is, the only way that democracy could be served with this corrupt system would be if the minority parties were barred by law of having any say in how the country is run. Look at our Parliament, we have the ridiculous (and bordering on criminal) situation where a party that just scraped past the 5% threshold effectively holds the balance of power, what ever way you spin it that is not democracy. Russel

You know full well that MMP is about the least democratic system there is, the only way that democracy could be served with this corrupt system would be if the minority parties were barred by law of having any say in how the country is run.

Look at our Parliament, we have the ridiculous (and bordering on criminal) situation where a party that just scraped past the 5% threshold effectively holds the balance of power, what ever way you spin it that is not democracy.

]]> By: Russel http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25386 Russel Sun, 25 Mar 2007 05:14:17 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25386 They do need a democratic system - ie one in which 10% of the votes produce 10% of the seats. Proportional systems are much more democratic. However, while the Greens didn't win any lower house seats, the results aren't in yet for the upper house (that is the NSW upper house) so far as I can see. They do need a democratic system - ie one in which 10% of the votes produce 10% of the seats. Proportional systems are much more democratic.

However, while the Greens didn’t win any lower house seats, the results aren’t in yet for the upper house (that is the NSW upper house) so far as I can see.

]]> By: big bruv http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25374 big bruv Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:41:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25374 8.8% represents the will of the majority, NSW is to be congratulated for not having an electoral system where the MINORITY hold the balance of power. 8.8% represents the will of the majority, NSW is to be congratulated for not having an electoral system where the MINORITY hold the balance of power.

]]> By: idiot/savant http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25373 idiot/savant Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:14:25 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25373 8.8% and no seats. NSW needs MMP. 8.8% and no seats. NSW needs MMP.

]]> By: Russel http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25345 Russel Sat, 24 Mar 2007 05:14:06 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25345 Ah, I meant the state upper house rather than the federal upper house. R Ah, I meant the state upper house rather than the federal upper house. R

]]> By: Edge http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25338 Edge Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:32:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25338 Yes - each state has 12 senators elected using STV for 6 year terms. Six senators from each state elected at triennial elections (unless there's a "double dissolution"). Yes - each state has 12 senators elected using STV for 6 year terms. Six senators from each state elected at triennial elections (unless there’s a “double dissolution”).

]]> By: Russel http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25335 Russel Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:46:10 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/23/greens-polling-10-in-nsw/#comment-25335 Greens should win more seats in the upper house which is multi-member preferential with half elected each time from memory. Estimates are that they will end up with 4 Legislative Council members, which may well give Labor plus Greens a majority in the upper house. The NSW Greens have put out feelers to Labor saying maybe we should work together on a progressive agenda, but Labor, as usual on both sides of the Tasman, keener to work with any right wing independents that might get elected. So we'll see how it pans out after today. Greens should win more seats in the upper house which is multi-member preferential with half elected each time from memory. Estimates are that they will end up with 4 Legislative Council members, which may well give Labor plus Greens a majority in the upper house. The NSW Greens have put out feelers to Labor saying maybe we should work together on a progressive agenda, but Labor, as usual on both sides of the Tasman, keener to work with any right wing independents that might get elected. So we’ll see how it pans out after today.

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