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	<title>Comments on: World&#8217;s poorest hit by food shortages</title>
	<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/</link>
	<description>hopping along the corridors of power</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: bjchip</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36165</link>
		<dc:creator>bjchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36165</guid>
		<description>It ought to be unconstitutional to write ANY bill that places any fixed number as a means test or a tax threshold.   1992?    

BJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It ought to be unconstitutional to write ANY bill that places any fixed number as a means test or a tax threshold.   1992?    </p>
<p>BJ</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor29</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36162</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36162</guid>
		<description>I agree with you fully BJ. However the large scale use of OTEC systems may have positive side-effects as well as potential negative side effects. In particular, the CO2-absorbing potential is increased (because algae don't like the tropical heat), as well other potential food production increases, on land as well as in the water.

Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you fully BJ. However the large scale use of OTEC systems may have positive side-effects as well as potential negative side effects. In particular, the CO2-absorbing potential is increased (because algae don&#8217;t like the tropical heat), as well other potential food production increases, on land as well as in the water.</p>
<p>Trevor.</p>
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		<title>By: bjchip</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36159</link>
		<dc:creator>bjchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36159</guid>
		<description>Trevor

Low temperature differential.  The thermal difference is small therefore a lot of water must be moved to generate significant amounts of power.   That in itself isn't as worrisome as the potential secondary effect of warming / disrupting the thermohaline circulation if there is  large scale extraction of that thermal energy.  

I am not saying it could not work on a larger scale, just that I would want to do the energy equations very carefully.   Cold water that does not reach the Antarctic can have effects on the global climate.  An OTEC plant would reduce surface water temperature around it as well.   How much I don't know without doing a detailed energy budget (and nobody is paying me to do that).    

I've no particular axe for this... just pointing out that large scale use of that temperature differential may have unintended consequences.   Smaller scale use for power generation for island communities might be supportable.  Effective use as an alternate energy source is viable but not unlimited.  

respectfully 
BJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor</p>
<p>Low temperature differential.  The thermal difference is small therefore a lot of water must be moved to generate significant amounts of power.   That in itself isn&#8217;t as worrisome as the potential secondary effect of warming / disrupting the thermohaline circulation if there is  large scale extraction of that thermal energy.  </p>
<p>I am not saying it could not work on a larger scale, just that I would want to do the energy equations very carefully.   Cold water that does not reach the Antarctic can have effects on the global climate.  An OTEC plant would reduce surface water temperature around it as well.   How much I don&#8217;t know without doing a detailed energy budget (and nobody is paying me to do that).    </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve no particular axe for this&#8230; just pointing out that large scale use of that temperature differential may have unintended consequences.   Smaller scale use for power generation for island communities might be supportable.  Effective use as an alternate energy source is viable but not unlimited.  </p>
<p>respectfully<br />
BJ</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor29</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36150</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-36150</guid>
		<description>Ocean Thermal Power Systems or Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

These have been in development for a while - the wikipedia article says the first units were built in 1930 &#38; 1935, although significant progress has only been made in the last 3 decades.

Significant byproducts of OTEC systems include desalinated water, cold water (for cooling, raising cold water fish, etc), and nutrient rich water.

Unfortunately these systems are not suitable for temperate climates such as New Zealand.

Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ocean Thermal Power Systems or Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion" >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion</a></p>
<p>These have been in development for a while - the wikipedia article says the first units were built in 1930 &amp; 1935, although significant progress has only been made in the last 3 decades.</p>
<p>Significant byproducts of OTEC systems include desalinated water, cold water (for cooling, raising cold water fish, etc), and nutrient rich water.</p>
<p>Unfortunately these systems are not suitable for temperate climates such as New Zealand.</p>
<p>Trevor.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor29</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35693</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35693</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kevyn

That would justify an immediate increase in the thresholds of at least 25%.

Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kevyn</p>
<p>That would justify an immediate increase in the thresholds of at least 25%.</p>
<p>Trevor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35692</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35692</guid>
		<description>Trevor, the CPI was just under 800 in 1992, 900 in 2000, 1000 last year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor, the CPI was just under 800 in 1992, 900 in 2000, 1000 last year.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor29</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35691</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 01:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35691</guid>
		<description>katie wrote:
"while the means-testing threshholds have not altered since 1992, when the Student Loans Act came in."

This appears to be a straight-forward unjustifiable position, and both major parties would appear to be at fault, since they have both been in power over the last 15 years. It shouldn't take much to adjust the thresholds for the CPI change, and I doubt that it would cost that much either.

How much has the CPI shifted over the last 15 years anyway?
Statistics NZ has recent information, but looking back 15 years takes a bit more digging:
http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/info-releases/cpi-info-releases.htm

Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>katie wrote:<br />
&#8220;while the means-testing threshholds have not altered since 1992, when the Student Loans Act came in.&#8221;</p>
<p>This appears to be a straight-forward unjustifiable position, and both major parties would appear to be at fault, since they have both been in power over the last 15 years. It shouldn&#8217;t take much to adjust the thresholds for the CPI change, and I doubt that it would cost that much either.</p>
<p>How much has the CPI shifted over the last 15 years anyway?<br />
Statistics NZ has recent information, but looking back 15 years takes a bit more digging:<br />
<a href="http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/info-releases/cpi-info-releases.htm" >http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/info-releases/cpi-info- releases.htm</a></p>
<p>Trevor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35689</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35689</guid>
		<description>katie,

I find your honesty in admitting that your feminist perspective may bias your comments both refreshing and helpful. I find that knowing where someone is coming from makes it so much easier to modify my own filters and set aside my own biases and appreciate the information in your comments. Hopefully some of the holier than thou visitors to frogblog will follow your example in 2008.

I've never understood why the student allowance has a differnt qualifying age than the unemployment benefit. I guess its further proof that the collective political mind will always gravitate towards the dumbest way of doing things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>katie,</p>
<p>I find your honesty in admitting that your feminist perspective may bias your comments both refreshing and helpful. I find that knowing where someone is coming from makes it so much easier to modify my own filters and set aside my own biases and appreciate the information in your comments. Hopefully some of the holier than thou visitors to frogblog will follow your example in 2008.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never understood why the student allowance has a differnt qualifying age than the unemployment benefit. I guess its further proof that the collective political mind will always gravitate towards the dumbest way of doing things.</p>
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		<title>By: katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35684</link>
		<dc:creator>katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 05:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35684</guid>
		<description>Sorry Frog,
I've been outta town, offline, and then a 'slow corner' once I got back.

The preponderance of 'economic vegetarians' amongst beneficiaries I know has been something I've ranted about on and off for about 5 years now, once even fronting the Hon Ms Dyson on this at a People's Centre  workshop on poverty issues for women. 

Food security is a major cause of concern for those working with the 1 in 10 (or so) children being raised in households whose income is under the official poverty-line. Some of these children have parents who are beneficiaries, some have parents who are students. I've met both kinds.

Student Welfare officers in charge of University Foodbanks are in no doubt about the extent of poverty and food security issues on campuses around the country - much of it due to the 'lifestyle choice' of studying while working up to 30 hours a week in order to pay constantly rising fees, while the means-testing threshholds have not altered since 1992, when the Student Loans Act came in. 

Many students are denied a basic student allowance because an estranged parent is earning very nicely, thank-you, whilst supporting another family of step-parent and step-siblings to the student being means-tested. 
Of course, as our Family Support legislation doesn't oblige liable parents to contribute for dependants over 18 years old, most of them heave a sigh of relief, and don't offer a bean to their newly emancipated 'adult' offspring embarking on tertiary study, who are penalised for their blood relationship to this irresponsible adult. 

Of course, this is my own personal, feminist, political analysis of the current legislation. 
Feel free to spend the rest of the holidays flaming this comment and defending a man's right to spend money on himself whenever possible, to the detriment of the survival of an intelligent, educated generation of the human race.  

I'm willing to bet that those who feel that way, also drive a gas-guzzling SUV, and will be amongst the first to fry when energy sustainability becomes an imperitive, not a debating topic... but I digress :-D

Cy'all in 2008!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Frog,<br />
I&#8217;ve been outta town, offline, and then a &#8217;slow corner&#8217; once I got back.</p>
<p>The preponderance of &#8216;economic vegetarians&#8217; amongst beneficiaries I know has been something I&#8217;ve ranted about on and off for about 5 years now, once even fronting the Hon Ms Dyson on this at a People&#8217;s Centre  workshop on poverty issues for women. </p>
<p>Food security is a major cause of concern for those working with the 1 in 10 (or so) children being raised in households whose income is under the official poverty-line. Some of these children have parents who are beneficiaries, some have parents who are students. I&#8217;ve met both kinds.</p>
<p>Student Welfare officers in charge of University Foodbanks are in no doubt about the extent of poverty and food security issues on campuses around the country - much of it due to the &#8216;lifestyle choice&#8217; of studying while working up to 30 hours a week in order to pay constantly rising fees, while the means-testing threshholds have not altered since 1992, when the Student Loans Act came in. </p>
<p>Many students are denied a basic student allowance because an estranged parent is earning very nicely, thank-you, whilst supporting another family of step-parent and step-siblings to the student being means-tested.<br />
Of course, as our Family Support legislation doesn&#8217;t oblige liable parents to contribute for dependants over 18 years old, most of them heave a sigh of relief, and don&#8217;t offer a bean to their newly emancipated &#8216;adult&#8217; offspring embarking on tertiary study, who are penalised for their blood relationship to this irresponsible adult. </p>
<p>Of course, this is my own personal, feminist, political analysis of the current legislation.<br />
Feel free to spend the rest of the holidays flaming this comment and defending a man&#8217;s right to spend money on himself whenever possible, to the detriment of the survival of an intelligent, educated generation of the human race.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m willing to bet that those who feel that way, also drive a gas-guzzling SUV, and will be amongst the first to fry when energy sustainability becomes an imperitive, not a debating topic&#8230; but I digress <img src='http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cy&#8217;all in 2008!</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor29</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35515</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/12/19/worlds-poorest-hit-by-food-shortages/#comment-35515</guid>
		<description>Sorry frog, but some of us get frowned on when we access sites like this from our work computers :(

In addition, while I'm interested and concerned about food production (or lack of it), I'm not sure what I can actually say about it. However one side effect of Ocean Thermal Power Systems (using the temperature difference between the warm upper layers and the cold bottom layers to generate power) is more fish, so this could be useful. (The cold water is brought up to the surface to cool the power system and is nutrient-rich.) Unfortunately I don't have a link.

Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry frog, but some of us get frowned on when we access sites like this from our work computers <img src='http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In addition, while I&#8217;m interested and concerned about food production (or lack of it), I&#8217;m not sure what I can actually say about it. However one side effect of Ocean Thermal Power Systems (using the temperature difference between the warm upper layers and the cold bottom layers to generate power) is more fish, so this could be useful. (The cold water is brought up to the surface to cool the power system and is nutrient-rich.) Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have a link.</p>
<p>Trevor.</p>
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