Wherefore art thou?
It’s amusing to see Helen Clark crooning under our Green Party balcony after a weekend of Green successes, including an improved poll result and a well received campaign launch. Russel’s response in the Herald was tidy:
“Labour taught us the value of independence and we’ve learnt our lesson. [Helen Clark] gave us a good lesson in the political views of the major parties and their political approach,” he said.
“I think she made her choice, she made her bed with Winston Peters and Peter Dunne and she’s now lying in it.”
Dr Norman said the Greens would work through their process to decide which party they could work with.
Jeanette said on Sunday that the Greens would this week announce the criteria that we would use to evaluate Labour and National before the election. That will require Clark, Key and their teams to measure up on their policy and past actions rather than ability to dole out baubles. So the current serenades, while sweetly sung, aren’t going to affect the outcome.
The Greens, unlike other parties, have committed to saying who we will work with before the election. That’s different to the game playing approach that Labour, New Zealand First and United Future have become known for, but it does mean that voters can make an informed choice.
October 7th, 2008 at 10:57 am
The Greens will do what they always do, won’t they?
Claim to be considering it, and after long debate, and although the option is not perfect, we’ll be going with {insert whatever Labour is suggesting here}
Nothing if not predictable….
October 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
It’s not about hurt feelings, in the end though is it? It’s about cleaning up our rivers, investing in low emission infrastructure, healthy lives.
You can play the game BP, but i vote Green because our MPs work to achieve real gains in the real world - not in the fictional world of one-up-man-ship you prefer to occupy, BP.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am
With no money to spend on green initiatives, what value will announcing Labour as the partner of choice after the next election bring to the party?
And on the point of having no money to spend on anything, what are the core policy issues that will drive the Green Party’s thinking after the election.
Oh, and one for PhilU. If there’s no money for anything, never mind luxuries, how are people who have made benefit living a lifestyle choice going to survive? And, was it you on the Radio yesterday complaining that the workers had got extra money through tax relief, but the welfared hadn’t got their 18% and they should have? If it was, what was the basis of that position - my radio stopped speaking for a minute or two, in shock I guess!
October 7th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Because Green initiatives save money, e hoa.
eg:
A modern PT network for the whole country - or 1 motorway and a tunnel?
Insulated homes - or coal fired power plants?
GE free economy - or GE horse vaccines for a few wealthy gambling enthusaiats?
October 7th, 2008 at 11:38 am
“With no money to spend on green initiatives, what value will announcing Labour as the partner of choice after the next election bring to the party?”
It may have no value of the sort you refer to. We announce because it is the right thing to do and because we’ve said we’d do it. Note that in 2005, we came out for Labour and only Labour. This time, at least some in the Party wanted to hear what the “new National Party” under Key might do differently before deciding. Certainly Labour looking like they’d go down played a role in this too. The AGM mandated a process of analysis before stating any preference, which can include no preference at all, though this is unlikely, because the new Nats are showing they will be little different than the old Nats. The co-leaders do not have the authority to decide this on their own. This is different than most other parties and some people on this blog can’t seem to get their heads around it, though its been made clear before. It doesn’t mean the membership is playing games. They are trying to respond to a changing political environment and still keep the principles intact.
“And on the point of having no money to spend on anything, what are the core policy issues that will drive the Green Party’s thinking after the election.”
Off hand, I can’t see why there would be any change to what they are at present.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:39 am
“A modern PT network for the whole country - or 1 motorway and a tunnel?”
I really think the latter would cost less…
October 7th, 2008 at 11:44 am
>>GE free economy -
Urg…..more religion. Ohhh….scary plants….coming to get me!
>>Insulated homes - or coal fired power plants
Insulated homes for whom, exactly?
>>A modern PT network
What Stephen said. Got some money to pay for it, aalong with all the other fantasy policy initatives, hmmm?
October 7th, 2008 at 11:47 am
>>And on the point of having no money to spend on anything, what are the core policy issues that will drive the Green Party’s thinking after the election.
The Greens have never been concerned about where the money comes from, so they are unlikely to start now.
The dancing money dragon will solve all problems….he is green…therefore he is good…and he will produce money……
October 7th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
BP said:
Scary plants?
No, viruses. Technical - I know.
Insulated homes for whom?
For people with uninsulated homes. That was an easy one.
A modern PT network?
Waterview = 2billion, Transmission gully = 1 billion.
1 trolley bus network - 15 millon. For 3billion, you could get alot of trolley buses.
October 7th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
>>For people with uninsulated homes. That was an easy one.
How many houses in NZ, how many are uninsulated, and how much does it cost to insulate each one?
>>No, viruses. Technical - I know.
Scare mongering. GE provides us with a wealth of opportunity to makes peoples lives better. The downside risks, like with anything, are easily manageable.
>>1 trolley bus network - 15 millon.
I trolly bus network isn’t going to provide anywhere near the ultilty of a road. And it has higher ongoing costs (susidies).
October 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“Mr Dunne said Helen Clark’s comments showed she wanted a more left-leaning government.
He said greater Green influence would mean higher tax, higher welfare spending and a very expensive emissions trading scheme”.
“The choices facing voters on November 8 are becoming clearer,” Mr Dunne said. “We can have either a National or Labour-led government driven by extremists from the fringes or a government being guided by sensible, centrist parties like United Future.”
- What a drivel merchant, wouldn’t it be nice to pop his little bubble of self importance and whisk away his little anti-green soap box.
Who to vote for in Ohiaru to unseat him? If i was there I would even consider voting for the National candidate if I thought that they were more likley to unseat this snivelly noob.
Charles Chauvel (Labour) list: 27, list MP. Entered Parliament July 2006 replacing Jim Sutton who retired from Parliament. Also stood in Ohariu in 2005. Former lawyer.
Katrina Shanks (National) list: 46, list MP. Associate Commerce, Associate Economic Development. Entered Parliament February 2007 as a replacement for Don Brash. Accountant.
Operation unseat Peter Dunne
Are Ohiaru voters left or right leaning?
Who is more likley to get enough support, or split the vote between them Peter, giving the majority to a third party?
Anyone have some dirt? or other strategy?
Let me Know.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
dangermoose -
“You can play the game BP, but i vote Green because our MPs work to achieve real gains in the real world - not in the fictional world of one-up-man-ship you prefer to occupy, BP.”
well spoke!
October 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
>>Are Ohiaru voters left or right leaning?
I’m Ohariu. It’s mixed bag, home to both wealthy and poor voters. I think they like Dunne because he’s “a nice bloke”. My wife and sister in law vote for him, much to my amusement.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
>>Who is more likley to get enough support, or split the vote between them
National has been campaigning hard in this electorate for some time.
I think it’s highly unlikely Dunne will be unseated, however.
He’s well liked for simply being Peter Dunne.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Oharia is an Exclusive Brethren stronghold. Is that you BP?
October 7th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
>>ou can play the game BP, but i vote Green because our MPs work to achieve real gains in the real world - not in the fictional world of one-up-man-ship you prefer to occupy, BP.
I do like to play the game.
The problem I see with the Green approach is its too religious. Not open to pragmatism and reason.
Whilst the Greens say and do some genuinely good things, and I admire their openness, I just wish they were a lot more Patrick Moore, and a lot less Mao. I think a lot of people within the Greens are genuine, but the problem is that they are genuinely mistaken on a number of issues.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Ohariu/Belmont, ne? Mr Dunne reminds me of a cane toad. Puffy, toxic. Didn’t he once have to confess to the House that he had been a dope smoker?
October 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
>>Oharia is an Exclusive Brethren stronghold. Is that you BP?
No, but I know who you’re talking about. They don’t vote though, do they?
Oharui includes Khandallah, and stretches through Newlands and out to Tawa. So, you’ve got very wealthy people, and working class. A curious mix that seems to like the safe middle ground, above all else.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
BP, So if Peter Dunne was ‘unpuffed’, i.e. somehow his credibility as a bastion ofthe safe middle ground was unhinged, who would you tip to unseat him?
Charles Chauvel (Labour) list: 27, list MP. Entered Parliament July 2006 replacing Jim Sutton who retired from Parliament. Also stood in Ohariu in 2005. Former lawyer.
Katrina Shanks (National) list: 46, list MP. Associate Commerce, Associate Economic Development. Entered Parliament February 2007 as a replacement for Don Brash. Accountant.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Good question. I suspect Labour and National would be neck and neck.
Normally I’d say Labour in this electorate, but they’ve fallen from grace of late. I think Katrina would be good, but that’s my personal view.
The other candiates will get nowhere.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
They don’t vote, BP, it’s true, but they do make them starchy selves busy about the place, like Santa’s Little Helpers, manning the phone lines
and they do have pots of money to line the pockets of those who might further their causes. Now who in that neck of the woods might they look to…?
October 7th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I might not agree with anything they say, Greenfly, but I defend to the death their right to say it.
They’re pretty harmless, really. The work. They pay their taxes. Very conservative, obviously.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
and so do I Blue Peter, and so do I, especially given that they are so upfront and honest and that they deal with such open and trustworthy people, like Don, John Bill and Peter.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I would think Katrina too - would Ohariu Greens vote Katrina for a good cause?
I sure would, and I wouldn’t miss Winstone either. It would be some consolation if the Nats do win and subject us to a more extreme version of labour’s idealogy.
and perhaps the Nats will find some dirt on Chauvel to make him less appealing to the middle ground.
There is hope - but is the big guy on Peter Dunnes side?
October 7th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
So Greenfly suspects that Mr “sensible, centrist United Future” is being funded by “extremists from the fringes”
thats a start!
And talking about extreme fringes - that is exactly what Dunne wears on his head - now there’s a rebuttal for Gareth to use!
Keep it coming team!
October 7th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
I`m in Ohariu too. Dunne will be a shoo-in in Ohariau. Nobody cares what party he is in, if he was Green Party MP he`d win too. Chauvel is a dick, Shanks however is genuine. Who is the Green MP in Ohariu - all we get is “vote for me”.
The Greens, unlike other parties, have committed to saying who we will work with before the election
Make it National. I may even vote Green if you do.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
>>Who is the Green MP in Ohariu - all we get is “vote for me”.
That’s because we don’t want your electorate vote. Gareth Hughes is standing in Ohariu. He’s 11th on the list.
“The Greens, unlike other parties, have committed to saying who we will work with before the election”
Frog has this wrong. The statement will be about who our preference to support in govt is if a policy deal can be struck, and doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t work in some other capacity with someone else, like we’ve done with Labour the last two terms.
“Make it National. I may even vote Green if you do.”
The decision will be made on the policies and likely programmes of the next government. Given what the Nats have already said about their approach to the environment, plus that their social policy is the opposite of ours, I’ll be very surprised if its them.